Feel free to call me out for being an asshole for any other reason, too. 😉
Here me out though, inb4 “Why do you want to insult people without being offensive, you inane, paradoxical asshole?”
Well, here’s the thing. I do want to be able to offend someone (in some cases), or to say something that might be considered offensive to them, even if not directed at them. More importantly, I want other people to have alternatives to insults, because people are going to use insults anyway, and making those insults less broadly offensive as a form of damage control is a far more achievable goal than doing away with insults entirely. But the purpose is to insult/offend a quality of their character, of that particular person (or a group of people who demonstrate a specific quality, attitude or choice etc), rather than using a random insult which uses a different group than the target individual/group as the butt of the joke and ends up, as a kind of crossfire/side effect, either offending that group or others or contributing to potentially harmful societal attitudes toward them.
I mean, do you have a problem saying “Misogynists are buttfaces”? No? But you just insulted a group. See what I mean? It’s ok to insult groups sometimes. But why insult disabled people? They didn’t/don’t inherently do anything wrong or worthy of ridicule (obviously some disabled people do, like any group of people - but that has nothing to do with their disability). And I’m guessing most people are fine with saying “That person is a real… asshole”. Hence the community this is in.
Let’s set aside the debate over “Is the R-word (retard, not gRape) offensive to disabled people, or to others who might be offended on their behalf, and/or does it contribute to negative attitudes & potential treatment of those groups of people”. Let’s just assume for sake of example that it’s an offensive or harmful term, or off limits regardless, because many people do take issue with that word and its colloquial understandings and associations/connotations. What would be a viable alternative? I can think of many…
But seriously, and please don’t lynch me for saying it in this self-aware meta analytical context, nothing hits as hard as “That’s fucking retarded” or “What a fucking retard”/“What a bunch of fucking retards”. These are powerful expressions, and they have the ability to persuade others to think negatively about a concept, thing, event, person or group of people, or to convey in evocative terms how you feel that something or someone is absurd, ridiculous or foolish. It may also be elements of the sound/enunciation of the word that are effective, even if you just read it and think of it. It’s similar actually to the word “fuck/fucking”, which I also used there. It means almost nothing extra but it can add emphasis.
And obviously the intention is (usually, or at least often) not to offend or even comment on anything about disabled people, and they aren’t even in mind at all. So it is similar to saying “That’s gay” (in a negative way), which honestly just sounds lame and cringe to me and doesn’t have the same effect as the r word. But the parallel exists where a lot of people aren’t thinking of actual gay people at all when they use the insult, and may be pro-🏳️🌈/LGBT, but it’s still problematic regardless.
Now, I’m not defending using the R word at all, nor do I use it. I actively avoid using it, with the exception of this post. But I see others using it all the time, and I can’t help but understand why they do, since it fills a bit of a linguistic box that other words haven’t been able to fill as well, although I want to be corrected on that.
Other words which are contenders for replacements when used as an insult in a way that is intended to be used very generally and not directed at or referencing marginalized groups or particular groups at all, aside from “retard/retarded” or “gay”, include “bitch”, the N word, and maybe “motherfucker” (I get a lot of pushback from this one, aside from some feminists who agreed it’s a little problematic - like “your mom” jokes). Also, using other animals as insults, but I know most people aren’t going to agree with me on that one since it’s more of a vegan/animal rights thing. Again don’t lynch me. Yes, I’m trying to find ways that people can be assholes without being more of assholes than they need to. Does that make me an asshole? Also, do you have any suggestions? Thanks for reading, and “fuck you” (not really, you’re alright).
Most insults are some attempt to link an aspect of a person or their behaviour with a negatively perceived thing. Most powerful insults also include breaking some form of social taboo.
Thus we have mild insults like “your argument is…” “weak-sauce” which associate the argument with the (presumably undesirable) sauce of insufficient strength; “shit” which is mild taboo but so widely used and conventional that it doesn’t hit hard; “loose stool-water, arse-gravy of the worst kind” which is both a bit taboo and reasonably novel (but wordy and pretentious).
If you’re trying to find insults that are going to impact someone, you have to find things that are upsetting / undesirable or them, so that association with that negative thing is bad and they want to avoid it. This is tricky if they have a different worldview, because what is offputting to you might be fine to them (eg. religious people insulting behaviour as ‘sinful’ or ‘satanic’ doesn’t really land for non-believers).
This is extra tricky if you don’t agree with what they find disgusting, because when you use something that disgusts them as an insult you are reinforcing the idea that it IS something to be disgusted by. Making fun of Trump’s ‘Lady-hands’ or ‘micropenis’ might be hurtful to him (or his supporters) but it also telling men that traditional masculine features and penis size are the qualities of real men. But that’s the problem, you can’t use someone’s beliefs against them while also challenging those beliefs as wrong.
So you can just accept that insults are problematic, and continue to call people ‘retarded fags’ because you know that has a negative association to them, ignoring the innocent minorities also hurt by that language. Or you can find things that are universally seen as bad and undesirable (mostly varistions on bodily functions) or that don’t really hurt the stereotyped group (“you’re whining like a little baby” is less problematic than “like a woman on the rag” or “like a little removed”). But these generally aren’t as impactful…
Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!
Did you come here to insult people and be insulted?
What’s wrong with assholes? Using that as an insult is bad because assholes are incredibly valuable parts of our bodies.
Wow, tl;dr
If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter. — Blaise Pascal
Go barroque. As in absurdly elaborate on what you throw at people you dislike.
Spanish have a saying that gets thrown at people that like to run their mouth. Very loosely translated it says something along the lines of “May you swallow a peacock and every every feather turn into a straight razor”. Takes some time to put it out. Gives a person time to get their blood settled.
But please don’t forget insults have always been basic and directed or sprouting from prejudice. I understand and respect what you are trying to put forward but it will not be am easy task.
We are basic creatures. We still go for what superficially differentiates one from another. It’s about anger and fear. It’s primal. Spinning this off and putting something elaborate and as personalized or generic as possible is a tough endeavour.
I personally find amusing to insert some nonsense into my speech when letting out an expletive and for some obscure reason I tend to go for vegetables and gardening.
You can be asked to go tend your cabbage patch when you miff me and I would really want to see you go away.
But this works very poorly outside my language.
Good luck on your quest and have fun.
I am a father. I swapped out all my insults for compliments when my son began babbling
“Shut your hole, studmuffin”
“Eat grass, beautiful”
of course you could just drop the compliments altogether but they add a bit of spice and confusion that I enjoy
I tried swapping to the curses from Bluey personally.
I still really like “Aw, biscuits.” But I’ve been swearing for so long it’s hard to replace “dammit” in my vocabulary and also have been very active in making sure my oldest (8) knows that swearing is generally frowned upon in polite company, which I am not.
Edit: I’ve also find mild success in swapping in English swears with Spanish, Japanese, Rosharan, and Firefly swears. Gorram and Storm it live on in my speech. I also quite like “Damnation!” but that one’s a real swear word so it’s hard to use.
No.
“Troglodyte” might work.
Woah there buddy, do you know how many French cave dwellers you just pissed off rn??
There are insults that I feel like are moralistic, majority seem linked to non-marital sex but the root overall is trying to shame someone for sexual activity that “should” be shameful. From those aimed at women like removed (lol lemmy, I’m saying the female dog here), slut, removed (ugh, the way devs treat everyone like children is ridiculous… it wouldn’t prevent a troll from writing wh0re, just prevent adults from having a conversation), etc, to homophobic insults, and even some more “neutral” like bastard… I don’t feel like people talk about bastard enough, like, you are trying to shame that person for their mother not being married? Like, single mother = bad person? (like son of a removed, bastard is pretty misogynistic)
However, when someone says something really dumb, and you try to come up with an insult to his intelligence, I think inevitably someone will try to link it to people who are mentally impaired. Even the word “dumb” here, it’s used for people with speech impairment, and people believed they couldn’t talk because they were idiots, which meant mentally impaired as well… given enough first-world-boredom, someone will make the fight against “dumb” and “idiot” their cause too.
What about when there is data and evidence to something and the person refuses to see or hear… you gonna call them blind/deaf? You will have a hard time finding an insult that first-world-boredom won’t try to link to shaming people with disabilities… even calling someone crazy, insane, demented, deranged, etc, those are all used to demean people with real mental conditions, it’s ok to make them the butt of the joke?I’m all pro using insults like asshole, piece of shit, etc, instead of moralistic stuff when you are trying to insult a person’s character… but what if you are trying to insult a person’s cognitive ability? People dead set to be offended will find a way to say you are being prejudicial towards people with cognitive impairment.
I think the problem many people have (myself included) is not just about being against prejudice toward those with cognitive impairments (though that’s part of it), but also against insults based on intelligence in general. People don’t get to choose how intelligent they are, it’s largely down to genetics and the environment one grows up in and is not a choice (nor is it a single spectrum… intelligence can manifest in a myriad of ways, and people can have high cognitive ability in one area while struggling with another). Personally I believe that insulting people for something they had no control over is unjust.
when someone says something really dumb, and you try to come up with an insult to his intelligence
but what if you are trying to insult a person’s cognitive ability?
The thing they said may seem foolish or obviously incorrect to you, with your experience and understanding of the topic. But to them, it may have made sense, or been an attempt at humor, or was something they said in passing without devoting much thought to it. I don’t really think that coming up with a way to insult them for sharing their thought is productive or compassionate, and won’t lead to understanding the person or their perspective any better.
If it’s someone you consider a friend, that’s a good way to build resentment both ways and put distance between you. If it’s someone you don’t like, or are arguing with, all it does it rile up people’s emotions and makes people get defensive and lock down on their stance, instead of approaching the discussion with an open mind and looking for common goals.
Whenever I have an urge to call something stupid or dumb, I stop and think about what it is that I really object to, and then comment on that aspect directly and explain why I take issue with it. I find that this makes me far more aware of my own opinions and clarifies my perspective, and helps me understand why things are how they are.
In regard to a discussion with someone who refuses to see data and evidence (and is acting in harmful ways, or supports those who do)… the reason why they are like that is very complex, and often they have been manipulated into their way of thinking, and are deeply submerged in the culture that encourages it. If their lack of critical thinking skills, or generally poor cognitive ability contributed to them falling into that, then it’s not entirely their fault for being how they are, and I don’t think insulting their intelligence is productive, and it misses all the context surrounding why they’re like that and will never lead to positive change.
That’s very beautiful, but do you feel that way too when Trump says vaccines cause autism, Elon Musk goes on rants about the woke virus, and then that racist uncle who likes to drunk-drive and catcall mentions them as beacons of morality protecting society from transexuals?
Regardless of nature and nurture, at some point people must be responsible for the things they do and say, else we are going to have to excuse everyone for everything, as nature and nurture is no one’s fault… and I don’t believe that. One can understand all the context of why they are like that, and still want them to fuck off.
I’m not saying people aren’t responsible for their choices and opinions, I think everyone is responsible for their own actions regardless of what led them to that point. But what I meant to convey with my comment is that people can have harmful ideas without that being indicative of poor cognitive ability, and that people shouldn’t be insulted based on something that isn’t a choice, such as intelligence.
Most of my extended family is like the person you describe, which is a big reason why I find it unproductive to insult their intelligence; I know them, and many of them are intelligent people who have been manipulated into misdirecting their anxieties over hardships at unfamiliar people, instead of at the systems which cause those hardships. But that doesn’t make them stupid, it makes them brainwashed.
and also, I completely understand how exasperating people like that can be and we only have so much mental energy to go around, so I totally get wanting them to fuck off. It’s not our responsibility to convince people to have compassion nor to teach critical thinking skills. fuck nazis, fuck fascists.
Did you not find an answer yourself; i.e. ‘asshole’? Most other anatomical inserts also apply, at least the non-gendered ones.
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Does not offend any particular group, except perhaps those with a colostomy.
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Still an insult.
The remainder are generally insulting because they imply you’re so X that you must be a member of group X. I.e. calling someone brain-dead, an idiot, a moron, slow, the French word for slow etc. You can’t call someone stupid without calling them stupid, even in an indirect way.
Edit: Neanderthal and troglodyte might work on the grounds that you’re comparing them to extinct species, and of course you could go for inanimate objects e.g. thick as pigshit, as smart as a bag of rocks etc.
Neanderthal and troglodyte might work
So easy a caveman could do it.
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I might get hate, but nothing homophobes hate more than being called a bundle of sticks, it sets them off
If I dont like someone, im targetting them based off what will piss them off specifically, if they really dislike a certain thing, I call them the slur version of that
Im not insulting gay ppl im insulting them by insinuating they are something they hate/fear.
