To be honest, as I chat with more and more random strangers these days it does begin to dawn on me that we all do roughly spend ~70 years on this planet devoting our attention to one thing or another, and that though people might not have what is seen as “classical intelligence” (i.e. high IQ’s, political savvy, high empathy / sociopathy, etc.), we are genuinely absolute genius’s in one particular field or another.
For example, I had an old roommate whose politics would make me drink and stare at the horizon whilst he consistently acted against his own self interests to punish people he was told are responsibly for his financial lot in life. But, he was an absolute wizard when it came to predicting the outcome of a sports game. It could be anything - football, hockey, tennis, whatever - he immediately ran their stats straight off the top off his head, summarized their strengths and weaknesses and came out with an outcome that was on the whole close to the truth.
Another example, my ex. We never really had deep philosophical discussions about the state of the world, and her consumerist lifestyle was one I tried to actively ignore. But, she was incredible at turning a house into a home – her interior design skills would genuinely surprise me at how well-thought out and in-depth they were, not only in terms of style and decor, but also in the way that she would execute and coordinate the tasks with me to beautify our home.
TL;DR – I do really think most people have high intelligence in one specific field or another, we just value people unequally using classical measures of success (wealth, education)
If your roommate was so good at predicting the outcome of sporting events, couldn’t he have used that skill to fix his financial situation, rather than blame others?
Tbh, transforming your talents into money is also a skill that some people have in spades and some people lack entirely. I’ve actually always bristled about that skill specifically, because I think Kim kardashian is an absolute phenom in that area and it always rankles when people say she’s stupid. She turned: a moderately famous but deceased and no longer relevant dad; relatively very high wealth (but not comparable to her current estate); an assistanceship to Paris Hilton; and a sex tape into an absolute empire. That’s a lot of points in her favor, but she makes the best possible decisions so consistently, she’s got to be one of the marketing greats.
Maybe it’s just my field, but every PhD program I’ve seen, applied to, attended, sent students to, etc… was basically paid for, outright. Mostly it’s a matter of moving, which is a gigantic bitch.
It’s paid, but (at least in my case) doesn’t pay that much. It’s barely enough to live off of if you’re really careful with your money. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without accumulating significant savings beforehand.
Paid PhDs are only the norm in stem, and those are the exact subjects where academia is a huge pay cut compared to industry. Hell, I’ll be taking a huge pay cut (in terms of net hourly wage) when I finish my master’s and quit my part time job, that requires a bachelor’s, and start a PhD.
You already said STEM. Some universities I’ve worked with include psych in the STEM department. It is a science. Fuck saying “hard sciences” like some kind of tiered distinction.
And, to my previous point… every psych PhD I’ve come across has been paid for. Hell, my advisor even had the balls to say “if you’re paying for a PhD, you’re doing it wrong,” when someone asked about funding during the interview.
It’s a colloquial term. My best friend is a psychologist and she taught me that distinction (I’m not a native English speaker), and I genuinely didn’t know some people took offense to it. Never meant for it to be tiered. I know psychology is a science, and a natural one at that. You’re the one acting like your field is somehow special and better than others. I tried to be general and you said your field doesn’t fit in, so ‘you already said stem’ makes zero sense.
Either way, I never said it was normal to pay for a PhD? I said it’s a huge pay cut vs working and industry job, which not everyone can take. Some people have others financially depend on them, and they can’t just decide to accept eating half of what they could otherwise for self fulfilment purposes.
It depends on the field, program of study, and institution. Some places want masters degrees coming in. Others, a bachelor’s or postbacc, so they can do a combined “full tour” masters-through-PhD and they get to shape students as-is.
I would not be surprised if a simple majority of Americans were functionally illiterate at this point. 5 years ago it was over 1/7 in my state actually illiterate and let’s just say I don’t live in the deep south or midwest
That’s not a matter of capacity though. Most kids are able to learn to read through basic instruction and almost all of the remaining kids can learn through appropriate intervention. This is why literacy is largely a policy decision rather than a matter of aptitude.
i think if you work in a customer facing job for at least five years and walk away thinking “yes these people are all capable phd candidates” there’s something wrong going on in that analysis so hey i guess we’ll just disagree here
Would i say there’s a significant portion of society that is through various ways made unable to utilize their intelligence i.e. an einstein toiling in the fields because they got bills and shit to deal with? sure but id have to not believe my lying eyes to extend that to “most” people
That’s fair. I wouldn’t go as far as saying everyone could be a phd candidate. For one thing, I think that’s a skill set that goes beyond intellectual aptitude and not everyone has the necessary temperament and set of tertiary skills. There’s also a big difference between what could have been if everyone had been educated properly from birth vs where people are at after decades of neglect and trauma and atrophy. That shit literally causes brain damage.
Most people have PHD intelligence. They just don’t have the motivation, need or care to do all that fucking work to get it.
To be honest, as I chat with more and more random strangers these days it does begin to dawn on me that we all do roughly spend ~70 years on this planet devoting our attention to one thing or another, and that though people might not have what is seen as “classical intelligence” (i.e. high IQ’s, political savvy, high empathy / sociopathy, etc.), we are genuinely absolute genius’s in one particular field or another.
For example, I had an old roommate whose politics would make me drink and stare at the horizon whilst he consistently acted against his own self interests to punish people he was told are responsibly for his financial lot in life. But, he was an absolute wizard when it came to predicting the outcome of a sports game. It could be anything - football, hockey, tennis, whatever - he immediately ran their stats straight off the top off his head, summarized their strengths and weaknesses and came out with an outcome that was on the whole close to the truth.
Another example, my ex. We never really had deep philosophical discussions about the state of the world, and her consumerist lifestyle was one I tried to actively ignore. But, she was incredible at turning a house into a home – her interior design skills would genuinely surprise me at how well-thought out and in-depth they were, not only in terms of style and decor, but also in the way that she would execute and coordinate the tasks with me to beautify our home.
TL;DR – I do really think most people have high intelligence in one specific field or another, we just value people unequally using classical measures of success (wealth, education)
If your roommate was so good at predicting the outcome of sporting events, couldn’t he have used that skill to fix his financial situation, rather than blame others?
Tbh, transforming your talents into money is also a skill that some people have in spades and some people lack entirely. I’ve actually always bristled about that skill specifically, because I think Kim kardashian is an absolute phenom in that area and it always rankles when people say she’s stupid. She turned: a moderately famous but deceased and no longer relevant dad; relatively very high wealth (but not comparable to her current estate); an assistanceship to Paris Hilton; and a sex tape into an absolute empire. That’s a lot of points in her favor, but she makes the best possible decisions so consistently, she’s got to be one of the marketing greats.
80% prediction rate isn’t anything to bank on :P
If you know the rate, and it’s that far above 50%, you should be able to make it work.
it’s 80%, 65% of the time :-)
I have a PHD in interior decorating too!
… or the money to go on that journey
Maybe it’s just my field, but every PhD program I’ve seen, applied to, attended, sent students to, etc… was basically paid for, outright. Mostly it’s a matter of moving, which is a gigantic bitch.
It’s paid, but (at least in my case) doesn’t pay that much. It’s barely enough to live off of if you’re really careful with your money. I wouldn’t have been able to do it without accumulating significant savings beforehand.
Paid PhDs are only the norm in stem, and those are the exact subjects where academia is a huge pay cut compared to industry. Hell, I’ll be taking a huge pay cut (in terms of net hourly wage) when I finish my master’s and quit my part time job, that requires a bachelor’s, and start a PhD.
Depends in if you include behavior and psych as STEM, I guess, then.
Yeah, should’ve specified, hard sciences
You already said STEM. Some universities I’ve worked with include psych in the STEM department. It is a science. Fuck saying “hard sciences” like some kind of tiered distinction.
And, to my previous point… every psych PhD I’ve come across has been paid for. Hell, my advisor even had the balls to say “if you’re paying for a PhD, you’re doing it wrong,” when someone asked about funding during the interview.
It’s a colloquial term. My best friend is a psychologist and she taught me that distinction (I’m not a native English speaker), and I genuinely didn’t know some people took offense to it. Never meant for it to be tiered. I know psychology is a science, and a natural one at that. You’re the one acting like your field is somehow special and better than others. I tried to be general and you said your field doesn’t fit in, so ‘you already said stem’ makes zero sense.
Either way, I never said it was normal to pay for a PhD? I said it’s a huge pay cut vs working and industry job, which not everyone can take. Some people have others financially depend on them, and they can’t just decide to accept eating half of what they could otherwise for self fulfilment purposes.
Don’t you need a Graduate degree AND a Post Graduate degree to even be eligible for most PhDs?
It depends on the field, program of study, and institution. Some places want masters degrees coming in. Others, a bachelor’s or postbacc, so they can do a combined “full tour” masters-through-PhD and they get to shape students as-is.
no they fucking don’t
I would not be surprised if a simple majority of Americans were functionally illiterate at this point. 5 years ago it was over 1/7 in my state actually illiterate and let’s just say I don’t live in the deep south or midwest
That’s not a matter of capacity though. Most kids are able to learn to read through basic instruction and almost all of the remaining kids can learn through appropriate intervention. This is why literacy is largely a policy decision rather than a matter of aptitude.
i think if you work in a customer facing job for at least five years and walk away thinking “yes these people are all capable phd candidates” there’s something wrong going on in that analysis so hey i guess we’ll just disagree here
Would i say there’s a significant portion of society that is through various ways made unable to utilize their intelligence i.e. an einstein toiling in the fields because they got bills and shit to deal with? sure but id have to not believe my lying eyes to extend that to “most” people
That’s fair. I wouldn’t go as far as saying everyone could be a phd candidate. For one thing, I think that’s a skill set that goes beyond intellectual aptitude and not everyone has the necessary temperament and set of tertiary skills. There’s also a big difference between what could have been if everyone had been educated properly from birth vs where people are at after decades of neglect and trauma and atrophy. That shit literally causes brain damage.