What if religion was separated from government, and all people were treated equally under secular law, as is the case in every advanced country where even non-cis-males are allowed to read freely and have a complex pluralistic civilization ?
IOW what if all the Sky Daddy people fucked off with their cosplay and let the adults manage things?
It’s a bit more complicated than that. People like him have traditionally played off of religion heavily while not being firm believers themselves. I think it stands to reason that the religion is a means to an end, which in Israel’s case amplifies their main defense, which is, “If you don’t like our ethnostate the you don’t like Jews.” Obviously ridiculous to most leftists, but liberals are more amenable to identity politics.
I think a key distinction is that the religious rhetoric is often precisely that — rhetoric. Specifically, it’s rhetoric aimed at an international audience, because conflating Judaism with the Israeli state is essential to how Israel frames itself and its genocide. It allows them to denounce all criticism of zionism as antisemitism, even if those critiques are coming from Jewish antizionists. Meanwhile, Israel’s actions have been helping drive an increase in actual antisemitism, which is also useful for Israel, because it helps them to justify the existence of Israel as necessary for Jewish safety.
That might seem like splitting hairs, but it’s important if we want to understand what’s happening. Many of the most vehement pro-genocide voices in Israel are secular Jews, as is a decent proportion of Jews in Israel. Judaism is more than just a religion, but an ethnoreligious group, and that distinction is important because Israel cares more about the “ethno-” part of that than the religious part (because like I say, there are many people who identify as secular Jews).
It’s somewhat analogous to how Trump performs a particular kind of conservative Christian rhetoric that’s more about white nationalism than any Christian ideals. The religious component is important to acknowledge, because many prominent MAGAs aren’t doing it performatively in the way that Trump and some others do, but rather their Christian faith is tightly intertwined with their white nationalism. However, to see this purely as a religious issue would lose crucial nuance of the issue.
I can think of another one.
What if religion was separated from government, and all people were treated equally under secular law, as is the case in every advanced country where even non-cis-males are allowed to read freely and have a complex pluralistic civilization ?
IOW what if all the Sky Daddy people fucked off with their cosplay and let the adults manage things?
Uh… The Nakba was committed by secular atheists. Stop trying to pin this on religion.
Ok great. So now Israel is just committing a secular genocide without the veneer of religion. I don’t see that that’s better.
What an uninformed, specious thing to say. I almost suspect trolling
Are you seriously suggesting Bibi’s Likud, or its partners Shas and Mafdal are … secular ?!?
It’s a bit more complicated than that. People like him have traditionally played off of religion heavily while not being firm believers themselves. I think it stands to reason that the religion is a means to an end, which in Israel’s case amplifies their main defense, which is, “If you don’t like our ethnostate the you don’t like Jews.” Obviously ridiculous to most leftists, but liberals are more amenable to identity politics.
Yes that’s an integral part of “religion”
I think a key distinction is that the religious rhetoric is often precisely that — rhetoric. Specifically, it’s rhetoric aimed at an international audience, because conflating Judaism with the Israeli state is essential to how Israel frames itself and its genocide. It allows them to denounce all criticism of zionism as antisemitism, even if those critiques are coming from Jewish antizionists. Meanwhile, Israel’s actions have been helping drive an increase in actual antisemitism, which is also useful for Israel, because it helps them to justify the existence of Israel as necessary for Jewish safety.
That might seem like splitting hairs, but it’s important if we want to understand what’s happening. Many of the most vehement pro-genocide voices in Israel are secular Jews, as is a decent proportion of Jews in Israel. Judaism is more than just a religion, but an ethnoreligious group, and that distinction is important because Israel cares more about the “ethno-” part of that than the religious part (because like I say, there are many people who identify as secular Jews).
It’s somewhat analogous to how Trump performs a particular kind of conservative Christian rhetoric that’s more about white nationalism than any Christian ideals. The religious component is important to acknowledge, because many prominent MAGAs aren’t doing it performatively in the way that Trump and some others do, but rather their Christian faith is tightly intertwined with their white nationalism. However, to see this purely as a religious issue would lose crucial nuance of the issue.